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Alternate Europe by Kristo1594 Alternate Europe by Kristo1594
Just for fun.
Hope you like it :)
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:iconbruiser128:
bruiser128 Featured By Owner Aug 24, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
Pretty cool.
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:iconwingsofwrath:
wingsofwrath Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Interesting map, but I'm afraid a lot of people will find things to gripe about it, because history is seldom so clear cut and there is a lot of bad blood going 'round.

As such, I will restrict my comments to my own country.

As a Romanian, I enjoy the thought of Greater Romania back on the map, but if we're talking about the current ethnic distribution, then we run into problems and there are a few alterations that should be made - first off, Transdniestria was never a Romanian land. We got it as "war booty" during WW2 and, after Stalin annexed Bessarabia into the Soviet Union, he tacked it on the new Moldavian SSR as a way to add more Russian speakers into the mix to balance the overwhelmingly Romanian population in the rest of the territory (that, and the fact a lot of Romanians were deported to Siberia, including some of my relatives, and replaced with Russians). Thus, from our perspective, that bit of land is not ours, never was and they can keep it.

For the Budjak, the situation is a bit more tricky. It was part of the historical Bessarabia and during the middle ages it had a largely Romanian population, but since it was part of the Russian Empire during the 19th Century and then part of the Soviet union, the balance has slowly shifted towards other ethnicities, to the point where today, only 13% of the population are Romanian and spread thinly across the territory. As such, maybe we should just give it up as lost, mourn it's passing and move on, because I really don't like people who cling to each and every square centimetre of land they held at one point in history as "rightfully theirs" regardless of who lives there now, because they are the ones that bring about world wars. (for an illustrative example, please see the very active Hungarian right-wing nationalists, not that ours are any better XD)

Finally,
Southern Dobruja. Like Transdniestria, we got that bit following a war, in this case the Second Balkan War of 1913, when the Romanian Army marched unopposed all the way to the Bulgarian Capital of Sofia and then promptly lost 6,000 men to cholera. 
Historically, it has only been under Romanian rule for 32 years (1388-1420) and was populated with all manner of ethnicities and a feeble Romanian minority. When, in 1878, we got
Northern Dobruja (which had a majority Romanian population) from the Turks (via the Russians - it's complicated - long story short, even when we are allies with them, the Russian manage to nick bits of our territory, even though, in this case, they gave us another bit which they just got from the Turks as "reparations") Southern Dobruja became part of Bulgaria, specifically for that reason.
We lost it again during WW1 (in retrospect, angering a bunch of guys who have been fighting literally everyone around them from 1913 onwards by randomly annexing some of their territory, then dismantling our south facing fortifications, trying to build new, field expedient ones further south and quartering them with poorly trained, poorly equipped and indifferently led second-line troops of an army who hasn't seen real action since 1878 just because we needed all the good troops to fight off the Austrio-Hungarians in Transylvania was a rather poor idea) but, despite all that and the fact we ended up surrounded by enemies with a wavering Russia as our only nearby ally (which then buggered off to have their October/November Revolution, and Romania was completely occupied by the Central Powers, but moving on), like a true Karma Houdini, we got it at the peace talks table...
Anyway, to cut a long story short, we held it in between the wars, then, in 1940, under the Axis sponsored Treaty of Craiova, there was a massive population exchange, ending up with the current situation, in which Southern Dobruja belongs to Bulgaria and has an overwhelming Bulgarian majority (Romanians accounted for 0.2% of the population in 2001).
Also, unlike other pieces of territory, we really don't dispute the Bulgarian ownership of this bit (save for the afore-mentioned right wing nationalists, but they're nuts). Not ours and they can keep it. Sure,
Balchik is lovely and the palace we built there in 1926 is pretty nifty, but that's about the only thing we can claim as "ours"...

Finally, the flag - yes, we did have a flag with a horizontal disposition of colours from
1859 until 1866, but the colours were always arranged with the blue at the bottom, so, to my eyes, the flag you chose to draw looks "upside down".

Oh, and in the debate with Hungary about all those ethnic Hungarians living in our country, I think maybe we really should give those those two counties (also known as Székely Land) a bit of regional autonomy, because, especially in the current EU climate, it wouldn't inconvenience the rest of Romania in the slightest - after all, there actually was a "Magyar Autonomous Region" from 1952 to 1968 (It got abolished by the ultra-nationalist Ceausescu) and it didn't do anything at all except soothe some ruffled feathers.  The only reason we don't is because nowadays we are just as nationalistic and we want to rub it in their faces that it's "our" country, not "theirs" any more, which is pretty childish, if you ask me.

We might be afraid that if we give them autonomy they'll want independence next and then to join Hungary, but, amusingly, the only people I heard clamouring for the annexation of those bits by Hungary, live in, well, Hungary. XD
All the Székely I know (and as a native of Transylvania, I know quite a few) deplore the fact that they're used by right wing Hungarian nationalists as a club to bash Romania with and pretty much flat out refuse the idea of "independence" (they really can't survive on their own economically) or an union with Hungary, because they know they'd just become second-class Hungarians the second that were to happen. For the most part, they want to be left alone and both Budapest and Bucharest can bugger of with their silly little political games.

The border area with Hungary should remain as it is, because there, unlike the afore mentioned Székely Land, where the Hungarian population might get as high as 84%, the Hungarian population in those areas is rarely past 50% and usually below 30. Interestingly, there is a similar "spillover"of Romanians living across the border in Hungary, but somehow you never hear about that...

And let me tell you, there are a lot of people out there ready to brand me a traitor and burn me to the stake for any of the above words, because, in their opinion, anything that is not a right wing nationalistic view of things is automatically treason.
*sigh*
Humans. Such a silly little lot, aren't we?
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:iconnapalmintherain:
NapalmInTheRain Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2014
Well, as a Hungarian (born in Transylvania, currently living in Budapest) I . . . totally agree with all of the above.
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Omg too much text at this moment. I'll read it tomorrow
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:iconarminius777:
Arminius777 Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2013
Nice, but why have the historically German regions (West- and East Prussia, Silesia etc.), from which 15 million of your countrymen were "vertrieben" with some 2,5 million deaths, not been returned to the "United German Federation".

Für ein Europa der Vaterländer!
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:iconaleksx000:
Aleksx000 Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2014
Well, in my opinion, if there are no Germans left there, why return it to Germany? ;)

Nice work on the map, mister Kristo1594 :)
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's because while making this map I thought about the Europe of today. So I tried do make a Europe where all Germans live in Germany and so on^^
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:iconsinancothebest1:
sinancothebest1 Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2013
Hated it
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
any reason why?
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
Obviously you went for ethnic borders. So here are the errors:
1. You forgot Eupen - St. Vith. The border of Greater Germany south of the France - Greater Netherlands triangle shouldn't curve. It should be as "straightish" as it is at Luxembourg.
2. Northern Schleswig is populated by Danes. Actually the Germans of South Schleswig are germanized Danes.
3. Trentino/Welsch-Tirol is populated by Italians.
4. You forgot the French Flemish people.
5. There are Basques at the western end of the Pyrenees and Catalans at the eastern end. By your criteria, Nice should be Italian, but Aosta-Susa French.
6. Corsica still French?
7. You gave Poland huge areas populated by Belarusians and Ukrainians.
8. East and South Ukraine ("New Russia") is more Russian than Belarus.
9. Budjak isn't Romanian populated, nor is the part of Bulgarian Dobrudja you gave to Romania. Transnistria isn't either
10. There are very few Albanians in Southern and South-Western Macedonia. Not even the biggest Albanian nationalist claim those areas. Part of Northern Kosovo is Serbian-inhabited.
11. Part of Vojvodina, West Slovakia and the border strip with Romania are areas with big Hungarian presence.
12. Transcarpathians aren't Slovaks.

These aren't straight-out factual errors like the above, but things you might not be aware of:
1. German speaking Swiss are a separate ethnicity, and not just a separate nation like the Austrians. And not all of Valais is German-speaking anyway.
But okay, this is debateable and not a straight-out errot
2. Walloons aren't French. It's not like Germans-Austrians relation. Austrians used to be the same Volk as the rest of Germans. Walloons never were a part of French nation - they were a part of France only a few years, as much as Cologne was. Same goes for the Romands - the French speaking Swiss. Their native language wasn't even a dialect of French, but a separate language between French and Occitanian - "Franco-Provencal "or Arpitan ("Alpine") or "Burgundian". It's the same relation as Italians-Rhaetoromanians.
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:iconlabo77:
labo77 Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2013  Student Photographer
Turkey Flag ?
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner May 3, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
what's with it?
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:iconlabo77:
labo77 Featured By Owner May 7, 2013  Student Photographer
Turkish Cypriots live flag just for the record it is not + cyprus
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:icondoliwaq:
doliwaq Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013
I very like borders of Rep. of Poland-Lithuania and Ireland, but IMHO Albania and Russia are too large and Hungary and Bulgaria are too small :)
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:iconlehnaru:
Lehnaru Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Poor Hungary! D:
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:iconserge2nd:
Serge2nd Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2013
Мне нравится.
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
sorry I don't speak Russian and I can't read cyrillic letters^^
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:icondoliwaq:
doliwaq Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013
He write 'Mnje nrawitsja' it's in Russian 'I liked it' ;)
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
ahh okay :)
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:icontheawesomejohnnyfive:
TheAwesomeJohnnyFive Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013
Sure, it's a nice map, in fact, I like it!
But how would or even /could/ a Europe with borders like these come about?
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
that's the question ;) just made the map to make the people think about a Europe there the main ethnic groups got own states^^
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:iconthemeloi:
Themeloi Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
Oh thank god you didn't include that fake culuture and history stealing "country" called "macedonia" you sir are a smart man!
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:iconzaigwast:
Zaigwast Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
Cool map man !!! :la: ....GREETINGS FROM ROMÂNIA !!!
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
thanks :)
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:iconzaigwast:
Zaigwast Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
Np :D
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:iconoptimus01:
Optimus01 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
Great map ... i like it a lot !
You know, i´m really impressed that you made a version of Greater Romania here. Because usually people chose making versions of Greater Hungary and frankly if you wanna make a map of JUST Europe, you definetly wouldn´t wanna have a ´´greater´´Hungary. I mean Slovakia, Croatia would be totally gone, plus entire areas where other ethnicities live would be stuck in another state.
Feeling sorry for Hungary is like feeling sorry for the brake up of the Soviet Union or any kind of oppresive empire.
Sure they have communities left outiside, yeah, but they aren´t that big. Only think is that they are very LOUD motherf***rs and bitch about everything.
But the ideea of a greater Romania is truly ok because our greater state only included areas with Romanians being the overwhelming majority. We had and have our minorities, just like any other state in Europe, but we never taken anything that wasn´t ours historically and population wise.
That´s my humble opinion ! And my appreciation of making an honest map like this !
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
greater Hungary is bullshit^^ they aren't even in all of there country a majority^^ West Hungary is still German land...
and I like Romania since I stayed in Constanta for 4weeks in the summer 3years ago.
I hope Europe will become like this. My heart always cries when I see my splited Germany and all the other border that shouldn't be there
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
There's very little Germans in Hungary, they've mostly left during and after WWII. In modern Hungary Hungarians are very much the majority nation. Since Trianon it's one of the most ethnically homogenous nations in Europe. So you're completely incorrect.
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:iconoptimus01:
Optimus01 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
Thanks bro, i really like your comment !
I all of unions of Germany + Austria, Luxemburg and Liechtenstein;Albania and Kosovo; Greece and Cyprus.
I mean there is only 1 German nation, 1 Romanian nation, 1 Greek nation, 1 Albanian nation, etc.
I´m also really sorry that Serbia and Montenegro splitted. They are also the same nation. I hope they will come to their sences and reunite, also Republica Srpska in Bosnia is defenetly Serbian.
I´m glad you like my country, it´s always a pleasure when the feeling is mutual :D
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
"Republica Srpska in Bosnia is defenetly Serbian."

It is NOW, after it has been ethnically cleansed of non-Serbs in 1992. Otherwise Serbs would make up only around half the population. Hopefully the nationalist politicians with connections to war criminals will lose power in the next decade or two in this unlucky region and refugees of all nations will be able to return. Changing borders through genocide should be unacceptable to the world of today.
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think yugoslavia should reunit except Macedonia^^ it's half Bulgarian half Albanian^^
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
Sadly, can't see that happening. There's too much bad blood between the nations. It would take communists banning all forms of nationalism to make reunion possible, and of course re-emergence of communism is impossible.
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:iconoptimus01:
Optimus01 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
Sure, except Macedonia, but i belive Macedonia is better as an independent nation. Sort of a Switzerland of the Balkans. I really like Macedonia because is the only country in the world where AROMANIAN has official status, along side, Slavic Macedonian and Albanian.
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
Macedonia is very far from being the "Switzerland of the Balkans". It's actually the poorest of the former republics. Aromanian is recognized not because of Macedonia being more advanced than its neighbours but because it's the only country where there is a significant number of Aromanians.
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
switzerland yes...^^
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:iconoptimus01:
Optimus01 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012
:) yeah ... it could work ! if Macedonia becomes more stable and gets in the EU, i guess it´s not that impossible for a country of their size to become prosperous. I mean look at Slovenia !
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
Slovenia is prosperous because it far industrialized even back in the days of Austria-Hungary, as it was a part of the more prosperous Austrian part. It didn't come out of nowhere. Macedonia hasn't got this industrial basis - what would they base they wealth on??? They don't even have a coastline, which is the only part of economy that still brings money in the poor Southern Europe.

Don't get me wrong, I like Macedonia too, especially their music, but let's be realistic. You don't just become prosperous out of nowhere.
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
haha yes :) let's wait what the future will bring^^
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(1 Reply)
:iconbullcross:
Bullcross Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
It is beautiful, but nowhere near just. A lot of things I don't like about the distribution of the map.
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:iconanycent:
anycent Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
y u take prussia
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Sep 16, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
hmm? O_o
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:iconanycent:
anycent Featured By Owner Sep 17, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
prussia is german land stolen by polsih devils
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
ahja ;) you know that there aren't so many Germans in this area now.
and it wasn't stolen bei the polish people it was stolen by the allies. don't blame the polish. blame the usa, france, russia and the uk ;)
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:iconanycent:
anycent Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I guess but in theory you could re-germanize the area by letting Germany take the land back and making poles learn German. Or all out ethnic cleansing like the allies did to the Germans.
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:iconmor-vilkacis:
Mor-Vilkacis Featured By Owner May 17, 2013
There are no Poles in Russian Prussia - Kaliningrad exclave.
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:iconwhitetower-exe:
whitetower-exe Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Great, but I can't fathom the Arab league being so large and remaining stable - I feel it would collapse into two or three more regions in stead.
Otherwise, nice map, nice art, nice history!
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
eventually it would do. I think it would be 4states (2north africa, 1 arabia, 1 between turkey and arabia)
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:iconwhitetower-exe:
whitetower-exe Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking too :D
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:iconkazumikikuchi:
kazumikikuchi Featured By Owner Jul 30, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
If the Vasa Dynasty survived Poland will look like similar to this but with Sweden.
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:iconkristo1594:
Kristo1594 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
interesting. didn't know that but it would be cool if it would be real :D
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